Help Managing A New 75 Gallon Aquarium - APE - Aquatic Plant Enthusiasts

ukamikazu · 12-08-2009, 06:12 AM

I just got finished getting my brand new 75 gallon. It has been running for a week now and looks great. I'll share pictures of it later when it is more settled and everything has filled in a bit.

Now here's my problem: Given the cost of water in Austin, doing weekly water changes is out of the question. Water changes will have to be done monthly. For the last week I've been following EI but without the weekly water changes, it kinda breaks down and may be all for naught.

My question is, what fertilizing regimen would any of you recommend for a large planted, high tech tank that for practicality's sake, can only have monthly water changes?

How much water should be replaced at that time? 33.333%? 50%, a 100%? Somewhere in between?

What did our forefathers in the hobby do?

I'm dying to figure something out to make sure I keep enjoying my lush, healthy growth and manage the inevitable algae.

Thank you.

chillplants · 12-08-2009, 07:33 AM

I would think a mineralized soil tank or something similar like "el natural" (Diane Walsted) would work best for this application. The plants will get their nutrients from the soil rather than dosing the water column. You may need to do some weekly water changes in the beginning due to the initial leaching of minerals, but long term you could cut back on water changes significantly.

ukamikazu · 12-08-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillplants

I would think a mineralized soil tank or something similar like "el natural" (Diane Walsted) would work best for this application. The plants will get their nutrients from the soil rather than dosing the water column. You may need to do some weekly water changes in the beginning due to the initial leaching of minerals, but long term you could cut back on water changes significantly.

I have my reservations about El Natural and it is already put together now. I did, however, fertilize the heck out of the 200 pounds of Eco Complete that I put in it. I stuck in a SeaChem Flourish tab every six inches, so I think I did myself a favor doing that.

This brings to mind an excellent question: Given the limitations on water changes, do you think that just doing heavy substrate fertilization will do? At least until after the new additions grow in their roots?

AquaZilla · 12-08-2009, 10:01 AM

Have you considered PPS dosing?

ukamikazu · 12-08-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaZilla

Have you considered PPS dosing?

I read about it and I like the idea a lot! I was already leaning that way before I even posted but I wanted to confirm that that would be the route to go. I mean, this is essentially what terrestrial gardeners do so it makes a lot of sense.

The only problem I'm having is wrapping my mind around the actual ratios of the components. I've found all kinds of recipes but a lot of it seems to be predicated on knowing what you'll need before hand and I'm having trouble pinning down a good scientific paper from which I can generalize what amounts of each will be needed. For example, What ratio of macros to micros and even among the macros, what ratio should those be mixed.

I think this has promise, but if I were to do it, I need a little help at first just being told what to do instead of floundering at first.

If I do it, I'd want a phosphorus free or very low phosphorus macro mixture and of course just straight CSM+B for my micros.

In fact, I hink I saw all these components on GLA, if I'm not mistaken...

AquaZilla · 12-08-2009, 10:32 AM

Some guys at UKAPS have claimed to be able to combine all micro and macro elements in one with phosphate with no problems. Im still waiting to hear what they add extra to keep the iron chelated. Thats the key I believe...

Im sure I have some papers laying around I could dig up for you

ukamikazu · 12-08-2009, 10:50 AM

I would appreciate anything you could give me to read. What I'm looking for is something that basically says under such and such conditions, Plant X will consume nutrient Y in Z concentrations to produce W amount of biomass.

Since a planted tank is a man made thing for the most part, I already know exactly what the basic water chemistry is, the CO2 concentration and duration and intensity of the lights. That's already taken care of and well known in my case.

If I could just get a general answer as to what concentrations to use, then I can figure out the rest on my own and change the recipe as I need as time goes on.

Personally, I like the idea of keeping the macros and micros separate. I heard too many bad things about what happens when EDTA Iron mixes with Orthophosphate. Bad and costly mistake that.

AquaZilla · 12-08-2009, 10:52 AM

I have DTPA iron

Also, why not just use a fert calculator to make some stock solution and do a test on each compound,testing for consumption at the end of the day.
I dont think you will find any papers regarding dry weight/mass of weed as a result of adding "X" nutrient. That would be really neat, and I vote you be the first to write for all of us

LOL

ukamikazu · 12-08-2009, 10:58 AM

Now you're expecting too much from me

.

But, no worries, I'll figure something out, I always do.

ukamikazu · 12-09-2009, 06:11 AM

Okay, I'm doing it.

Orlando, you may have seen an order from me yesterday afternoon for all the required components for PPS.

I'm going to use the recipe that Edward came up with using Jason Baliban's tweeks and go from there.

Wish me luck. In the meantime, I'll probably be saving a fortune in fertilizers.

12-08-2009, 06:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
ukamikazu Moderator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Austin, Texas, USA Posts: 620	Help Managing A New 75 Gallon Aquarium I just got finished getting my brand new 75 gallon. It has been running for a week now and looks great. I'll share pictures of it later when it is more settled and everything has filled in a bit. Now here's my problem: Given the cost of water in Austin, doing weekly water changes is out of the question. Water changes will have to be done monthly. For the last week I've been following EI but without the weekly water changes, it kinda breaks down and may be all for naught. My question is, what fertilizing regimen would any of you recommend for a large planted, high tech tank that for practicality's sake, can only have monthly water changes? How much water should be replaced at that time? 33.333%? 50%, a 100%? Somewhere in between? What did our forefathers in the hobby do? I'm dying to figure something out to make sure I keep enjoying my lush, healthy growth and manage the inevitable algae. Thank you.

12-08-2009, 07:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
chillplants Aquatic Plant Enthusiast Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 423	I would think a mineralized soil tank or something similar like "el natural" (Diane Walsted) would work best for this application. The plants will get their nutrients from the soil rather than dosing the water column. You may need to do some weekly water changes in the beginning due to the initial leaching of minerals, but long term you could cut back on water changes significantly. __________________ 125 gal 75 gal eel tank

12-08-2009, 10:01 AM	#4 (permalink)
AquaZilla Administrator Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,736	Have you considered PPS dosing? __________________ The Planted Aquarium Blog

12-08-2009, 10:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
AquaZilla Administrator Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,736	Some guys at UKAPS have claimed to be able to combine all micro and macro elements in one with phosphate with no problems. Im still waiting to hear what they add extra to keep the iron chelated. Thats the key I believe... Im sure I have some papers laying around I could dig up for you __________________ The Planted Aquarium Blog

12-08-2009, 10:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
ukamikazu Moderator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Austin, Texas, USA Posts: 620	I would appreciate anything you could give me to read. What I'm looking for is something that basically says under such and such conditions, Plant X will consume nutrient Y in Z concentrations to produce W amount of biomass. Since a planted tank is a man made thing for the most part, I already know exactly what the basic water chemistry is, the CO2 concentration and duration and intensity of the lights. That's already taken care of and well known in my case. If I could just get a general answer as to what concentrations to use, then I can figure out the rest on my own and change the recipe as I need as time goes on. Personally, I like the idea of keeping the macros and micros separate. I heard too many bad things about what happens when EDTA Iron mixes with Orthophosphate. Bad and costly mistake that. Last edited by ukamikazu; 12-08-2009 at 11:03 AM.

12-08-2009, 10:52 AM	#8 (permalink)
AquaZilla Administrator Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,736	I have DTPA iron Also, why not just use a fert calculator to make some stock solution and do a test on each compound,testing for consumption at the end of the day. I dont think you will find any papers regarding dry weight/mass of weed as a result of adding "X" nutrient. That would be really neat, and I vote you be the first to write for all of us LOL __________________ The Planted Aquarium Blog

12-08-2009, 10:58 AM	#9 (permalink)
ukamikazu Moderator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Austin, Texas, USA Posts: 620	Now you're expecting too much from me . But, no worries, I'll figure something out, I always do.

12-09-2009, 06:11 AM	#10 (permalink)
ukamikazu Moderator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Austin, Texas, USA Posts: 620	Okay, I'm doing it. Orlando, you may have seen an order from me yesterday afternoon for all the required components for PPS. I'm going to use the recipe that Edward came up with using Jason Baliban's tweeks and go from there. Wish me luck. In the meantime, I'll probably be saving a fortune in fertilizers.

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